Seth Godin Answers 3 Questions
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Seth Godin is the #1 business blogger in the world as well as a leading authority in all-things-marketing. His blog is ranked in the top fifteen on Technorati’s top 100 list. For a full listing of his many accolades, impressive accomplishments, numerous published books, and what smart people say about him, check out his “about” page after reading his answers to my 3 questions.
Thousands of church leaders follow Seth’s advice when crafting and forming the identity of their own church’s marketing, which is why I felt that he’d be a valuable addition to the conversation.
Me: Aside from the status of being a guru, what other factor most aids the popularity of your blog?
Seth: I’m no guru. That’s just a joke! My job is to remind people of stuff that they already know is right. People like being right, they just need to be reminded sometimes that their instincts are correct.
Me: For church leaders without much of a budget and without formal training in marketing, what strategy could build community online most effectively?
Seth: People will talk about you (online and off) if it benefits them, if it makes them feel good, if they get something psychic out of it. The challenge isn’t to figure out the tactics, it’s to create an experience that’s worthy.
Me: What one thing most irks you about how the church markets herself?
Seth: One possible story for a church is, “We’re right, everyone else is wrong, get in here or it’s all over for you.” I think this generation is making it clear that this just doesn’t fly. The outsider says, “Don’t export your ironclad views to my school district or to my White House.”
You may believe deep down that you have seen the only way, but don’t expect that this story is going to travel very far. My two cents, anyway.
As with much of Seth’s insights, I feel like I could spend all day dissecting these statements and how they impact church leaders and the implications for their ministries. However, I’d rather let you give me your thoughts. Comments are open.
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Wow…great questions and some very interesting answers by Seth.
I think his last comment is something a lot of church people forget. We’re so used to the idea that our way is the only way that we forget that outsiders find that incredibly arrogant. The whole idea behind attracting seekers is that they’re still SEEKING! In the words of the U2 song, they still haven’t found what they’re looking for.
We need to create an environment where it’s ok to ask the tough questions. People need to feel comfortable learning about God without being judged. After all, we’re not the ones who do the work of redemption anyway. No one comes to Christ unless His spirit leads them.
So why do we keep getting in the way?
Brad Ruggles
http://www.bradruggles.com
Brad Ruggles’s last blog post..Surpassing Expectations
i think that seth is spot-on with his last answer. this generation doesn’t like to be told what to do or what to believe.
good questions and answers.
blake’s last blog post..Winter Retreat
It’s refreshing to have a point of view about church leadership from someone outside. Seth’s last answer was definitely a challenging one. We know the truth- the one and only Way. You cannot compromise that truth or you shake your very foundations. But how do you translate it to this generation without being too “in your face”? I wish I had the answer.
Nathaniel Scott’s last blog post..The First Test
@Brad - Getting out of the way is tough, but necessary.
@Blake - Thanks. He’s a sharp guy and gracious for answering my questions.
@Nathaniel - Me too, my friend.
I’m with you guys I think Seth’s last answer is crucial to filter your ministry through to evaluate how your operating. Good stuff Scott.
@Boyd - Filtering is definitely “crucial.” It gives you perspective.
Scott, I’ll have to be honest here… I’m left wanting MORE! Good stuff but can we do TEN questions?
I love Seth’s response to #2. He is SO right… we MUST create an experience worthy. I think the church misses this many times over.
/TC/
scott -
great stuff. thanks for posing these questions to seth and posting his responses.
it’s already been said, but we need to pay close attention to seth’s comments in response to the third question. there was a time when we could assert our view as right and it was okay…most people agreed. those days are history.
as we have embarked on a new church planting journey, God has opened my eyes to one big fat assumption i know i have had and many others have as well: we assume a spiritual hunger directed at Christianity that just isn’t there.
very few people, if any, are sitting in their la-z-boy’s waiting on the church mailer that says you can wear jeans, our pastor is relevant, our music is rock-n-roll, etc…that’s been done and he’s said “no” to that a hundred times.
we have to earn the right to be heard and the way to that, we are learning at least, is not with a cool worship service. it’s by living like Jesus, serving and loving people we don’t agree with, and serving and loving the least of these. just my two cents!
@Terrace - I could always have a little more Seth.
@Jay - Thanks for the well-thought-out comment. You’re right, there’s no one waiting for my flyer, however disheartening that may be to a designer like myself.
The impression I get from Seth is that he couldn’t really care less whether the Church benefits from his insights. I read his responses to another Christian bloggers questions (http://www.tonymorganlive.com/tony_morgan_one_of_the_si/2006/10/5_questions_wit.html) and it reads like he has a bad taste in his mouth about the Church. This is not to say that we shouldn’t read Godin’s stuff and try to apply it, but I just can’t get excited about any of his church-marketing specific insights. I do agree though that we should focus on creating an experience worth marketing before we get carried away with Marketing tactics.
I love much of what Seth preaches…and while I might agree with Kevin I think that’s all the more reason to hear what he has to say. Whether or not he has a bad taste in his mouth, others certainly do.
We, the church, too often talk about and think about ourselves, OUR church, OUR programs, OUR preach and forget about people YOUR needs, YOUR hurt, YOUR history.
Nicely done Scott!
@Kevin - I’m a big fan of gaining insight about how to do church from people who aren’t involved in church on a daily basis, especially if the person is a guru on some level.
@Michael - Thanks.
I’ve been a fan of Seth for a couple years now. But I think the real guru when it comes to church marketing is Jesus, not Seth. Many of the ideas and thoughts we’re discussing here revolve around reaching “seekers” with our church marketing. The question is, how did Jesus reach these kind of people?
Consider Luke 9.57-62
Three different “seekers” and Jesus’ response is basically the same. It’s the same response he gives the rich man in Luke 18, and that is, He tells them it will be hard, they will have to give up their current life style, “Are you sure you’re up to the challenge?” He asks them. Maybe these people who are searching for something more than they’ve found in the world, something larger than themselves, something of significance, need to know that it will cost them to follow Jesus. It will be a challenge, not easy street.
I think to often we soft sell the Christian life. If we presented it the way Jesus does, namely that there is a cost to discipleship, maybe we’d be telling a story worth hearing. A story people would want to be a part of.
Now I’m not, in any way, suggesting salvation is earned by works. Salvation is an act of faith in a loving God, realized through grace that is His gift to us, and apart from any act of our own will. Sanctification is another story though. While it’s still an act of grace, it is costly grace.
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@Brance - It’s funny that you mentioned that Jesus is the real guru. I’ve already written a post about this and was about to post in a few minutes. It’s called Jesus: The Ultimate Permission Marketer.
Great job with the interview! Very insightful and informative, so I gave it a Stumble
All the best,
Mark
Mark’s last blog post..Do The Unthinkable - The Scott Rigsby Interview
I guess it’s comments like this, ““Don’t export your ironclad views to my school district or to my White House,” that turn me off to Godin’s church-specific marketing insights. Sounds a bit angry to me. I know a lot of people aren’t involved in a church, but how many of them are using this kind of language when speaking to Christians.
well done getting Seth to comment!
andrew jones (tallskinnykiwi)’s last blog post..The Davos Question: Can You Answer It?
Seth Godin is a marketing genius. As a Squidoo lensmaster, I have participated in his “purple cow” creation. However, when it comes to the church, it really depends on the type of church. Why?
When I lived in the Bronx, I was an active member of a church for several years. During that time, there was a “revival”. People were being healed, relationships were being mended and addicts were being delivered. Our church never advertised or marketed anywhere. On the other hand, people’s lives were being transformed. That piqued people’s curiosity. Word of mouth and the evidence of change brought one thing. The church’s attendance exploded. Attendance shyrocketed to over 1000 people per service in a short period of time. The church had to increase their Sunday services to 3 a morning and had to use projectors to show the service in alternate rooms. (The sanctuary was maxed out and the fire marshall suggested this).
The church is a hospital for the broken. When the church meets the needs of the people, it will grow. When a church is treated like an organization or a social gathering, you get different numbers. Healing, acceptance and love nurture growth in people, thus the church grows too.
***This has been my personal experience.***
supermom_in_ny’s last blog post..Nothing Can Separate You From the Love of God
@Mark - Thanks.
@Kevin - My dad always says that lost people are going to act like lost people. Seth’s honesty and perspective is exactly the kind of insight church leaders need to hear if we’re going to try to meet them where they are and speak relevantly into their life.
@Andrew - Dumb luck.
@Supermom - Share your lens URL with us, please. I love Squidoo. Also, changed lives are the most remarkable stories, which then become the most viral purple cows.
No question that Seth is uber-smart! There’s a reason he’s considered a guru … That said, it also reminds me of Erwin McManus’ recent article about today’s Church being too superficial and self-indulgent. Most of us have a what’s-in-it-for-ME attitude toward church [was the worship great? was the preaching great? do my kids love the children's ministry? does the men's ministry do enough ...]. All are marketing concerns and are certainly important … BUT …
I like to ask the questions: If our church closed its doors tomorrow, would anyone notice or care? What would be missed the most, if anything, by our community? What three big things do we do really well that make the rest of what we do simply “bonus” items? Can you name one?
My humble thoughts.
Roland Thomas Gilbert’s last blog post..“… And here’s what that looks like …”
Seth,
Thank you for answering these questions. I think as the Church goes, we try to be relevant, and we want to reach others, because that is really what the Gospel is all about. I know I battle old way of thought, to new way, because there is good in both. But I agree, we have showed little compassion “as come as you are” sometimes we want to take people from A to B so quickly that we miss the Journey that we are all on, and we are all at different stages in life.
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Seth’s response to #2 is great - “give them an experience worthy” - and the great thing that the Church (christianity) must remember is that we don’t have to work to awful hard to give people an experience. All we have to do is lead them to somewhere which God is at work.
Showing those outside God’s kingdom what God is doing is going to be the best, most accurate experience we can give them.
in other words. figure out where God is moving, show others, get out of the way.
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