Quivers and the Infamous Onan [Unpacked]
May 10th, 2008 | Published in Church | 22 Comments
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Let’s clarify a couple passages of Scripture. These have been misinterpreted for a while and I’d like to share why I disagree with some of those conclusions.
Sons are a heritage from the LORD, children a reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one’s youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate.
Psalm 127: 3-5
Children are a blessing, but using this passage to support why we should have as many as possible is irresponsibly applying the Word. In this passage, children are a blessing in terms of military protection; weapons to defend your land/family/self.
Then Judah said to Onan, “Lie with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the LORD’s sight; so he put him to death also.
Genesis 38: 8-10
This isn’t a passage about birth control, refusing to have children, or masturbation. This is a passage about Onan rebelling against God by disobeying Levitical law telling him that he was to marry his dead brother’s wife and give her children. Period.
May 10th, 2008 at 10:35 am (#)
I’m no Hebrew scholar (far from it!) but what does the “like” in the Psalm verse do to the rest of that passage? When the last verse refers to the sons contending with their enemies is that a continuation of the “arrows” analogy?
Chriss last blog post..This quote made my head spin
May 10th, 2008 at 4:37 pm (#)
Scott,
INTERESTING to me that just last night I was talking briefly to Erica about this. hmmmmm
Anyway, I have been trying to figure out God’s will for this area of my life. I guess when it comes down to it, so far my reasons have not been biblical but just logical. If Jacob was a “mistake” and literally the most amazing blessing of my life, why would I want to block God from giving me another one!
Is it out of my fear or lack of trust in God that I take birth control?
Is it because I do not think I could provide for a large family. (Like a fool thinking that “I” provide anything in my life.)
Is it because I am selfish and want my life to be a certain way instead of surrendering all of me, (even my UTERUS), to God?
Sometimes I think I know better than God. Life would be perfect if I had 2 kids 3 years apart. But one thing I know is that God always knows better than me. And that he wants what is best for me, sometimes I can’t see that. But if God wanted me to have 7 kids… then it would be what is best for me. If God wants me to have 1, then it would be what is best for me. HIS PLANS are to prosper me, to give me hope and a future. MY PLANS usually fail.
I read all of Psalm 127 because I wasn’t sure what the whole context was. The first part got me thinking-
Unless the Lord builds the house, its builders labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchmen stand gaurd in vain.
When it says unless the lord builds the house… do u think he means builds your family? Lots of times in the bible the members of a family are reffered to as house. ???
Just a thought.
I am still debating, praying and undecided…
So, I enjoy seeing what other Christians who I respect think on the topic.
Kristas last blog post..To a crisp
May 10th, 2008 at 6:36 pm (#)
Good discussion!
I’ve never liked the erroneous interpretations of the Onan story. Both teachings(condemning birth control and masturbation) are examples of forcing the text to fit a pre-determined conclusion.
As far as the quiver thing, I’ve got a pretty full one. After our sixth child was born, my wife had her tubes tied. Nine months later, we were expecting another one!
Our seventh and last child (I had my tubes done after he was born!) has been an incredible blessing to our family, and my wife and I often talk about how grateful we are that God found room for one more in my quiver.
Kip Keiths last blog post..What is God’s Grand Plan for you?
May 10th, 2008 at 8:27 pm (#)
Krista, I completely agree with you. 100%! God’s plan for you is exactly what you should do and what is best for you, no doubt. My point in the article is to say that these two passages aren’t meant to be used as proof that God’s purpose for every family is a “quiverfull”. I just think these two passages are taken out of context, that’s all.
Kip, holy cow, you guys are fertile. Awesome. Congrats on all the kids.
May 10th, 2008 at 8:57 pm (#)
scott your vidoe makes absolutely no sense. I mean none. I have sat here trying to figure out what the heck you are talking about.. and I have finally given up. nachos? Tetris? please help
Kristas last blog post..To a crisp
May 11th, 2008 at 3:11 pm (#)
Agreed on your intepretation of Onan, but I think more study is needed for Ps 127.
Solomon was not giving instruction on military defense. It is a wisdom psalm, and he is reminding us that God is sovereign over our homes and our families. Solomon is saying what a wonderful thing it is to have children, and they are as valuable to a man as arrows are to a warrior. It doesn’t appear to be a military instruction, but a family instruction, with a military metaphor. (Much as when Paul says “fight the good fight” he isn’t giving instruction on boxing but on perseverance, with athletics as the metaphor.)
Bottom line is this: The Church has been terrible about misapplication of scripture through the years. I remember being so disappointed when I learned that Jeremiah 29:11 was not a personal promise, but one made specifically to the nation of Israel! Glad to see you wrestling with these and straightening them out for the rest of us. Keep on!
Richs last blog post..A Few Quotes
May 14th, 2008 at 4:21 pm (#)
Well, I’m a random person who stumbled upon this blog. I don’t know you at all.
Anyway, I just would like to echo the other person who was investigating motives.
If our motives for maintaining control of our child-bearing fall under fear or selfishness, those motives are not of God. In my mind, it’s that simple. And I can’t think of a motive besides those two.
This was originally sparked as a question in my life when a non-believer, who was intending to have an abortion, was talking with me about her upcoming abortion. I was trying to share hope with her and convince her that this was not the right choice. I told her that I believed that God was the giver of life. She responded to me by saying, “Well, if you believe God is the giver of life, who are you to say when He can give it?” My husband and I spent months pouring over Scripture and just praying to God. Eventually, we also relinquished control of our child-bearing to Him.
And as far as being irresponsible by choosing to allow the Lord to control our child-bearing, God IS the giver of life, no matter how many children we have. I am willing to sacrifice “things” that America tells me are important. I don’t consider this irresponsibility. I consider it prioritizing.
Anyway, there’s your random comment from a random stranger for today. I could go on and on about this but, ultimately the only thing I can say is… Question your motives. Find out what God says, not what any man says (INCLUDING ME).
We weren’t meant to live by the “rules” of this world.
May 14th, 2008 at 4:53 pm (#)
Oh Scotty!! I hope this is not related to my past blogs. If so, I just wanted to clarify that I don’t think Psalm 127 supports that people should have as many children as possible. Just that it should be left in the hands of God.
Also in agreeance with your Genisis 38 interpretation. Well said.
The obvious is stated about children being a blessing and a heritage etc etc.
My questions to you would be….
If that is the case and children are a blessing, why should we be able to decide when we think it is a good time to recieve those blessings? Knowing that God is a Sovereign God and as posts have said (the guy who had the baby after the sterilization) God is in control no matter no matter what. The Lord knows the days of our life and are numbered before we are even conceived. Why for one second would we think we could thwart that through the use of Birth control or any contraceptive method for that reason? God knows how many we are going to have no matter what we do. Nothing we can do will change that.
Why not live a life of freedom and let God decide when he will bless the womb? Trust me, it sounds like it would impose stress but it has done just the opposite.
May 14th, 2008 at 10:31 pm (#)
Great responses and thoughts so far. Just to clarify again, my purpose was to explain the context of each passage.
I completely agree that children are a blessing. The issue I have with being “completely open to have as many as God allows” is that children are also a huge responsibility.
While God blesses us, the Enemy can also take advantage of our blind faithfulness. God calls us to radical faith, but never to blind faith. Blind faith is dangerous because the very fact that it’s blind means you can’t see who or what is leading you.
The bottom line is that, while God desires/demands radical faith, God also calls us to wisdom and responsibility, moderation and temperance. And yes, there is room for both.
May 15th, 2008 at 8:06 am (#)
Here’s my questions.
What did the church do before birth control? Were they living dangerously with ‘blind faith’?
What about the Christian church that still exists around the world without the option of birth control? Are these children irresponsibly birthed?
Are ALL children from God, or aren’t they? Are you implying that when we don’t know “who or what is leading us,” we can somehow be “misled” into children, who are created by God?
So, I’ve chosen this life of blind faith. What is the “worst case scenario”? Let’s say I have 20 children. Aren’t all these children from God? Which of them, after having birthed them, would I “regret”?
Also, church history is pretty interesting when in comes to the issue of birth control. Feel free to do some research on that topic, if you care to investigate. The church, specifically in America, has made some pretty HUGE shifts on this topic over the years.
Basically, I love God. I trust Him completely. Any life that He chooses to put in the care of my husband and I, is most definitely from Him (our Enemy, as crafty as he may be, CANNOT give life)…. whether He decides that my “quiver is full” at 1 child, or at 20 children. Not all people who give control of their child-bearing to the Lord end up with 20 kids. Most don’t, in fact.
Anyway, food for thought.
May 15th, 2008 at 8:27 am (#)
Also, I completely agree with Rich’s interpretation of Psalm 127.
And I agree 100% about Onan.
For my husband and I, Onan did spark the question, “Why did God make this a part of Levitical law to begin with?”
May 15th, 2008 at 8:35 am (#)
Truthfully, I’m not talking about birth control. Throughout history, there has always been forms of birth control, but recently it’s become easier with technology. After all, abstinence is a form of birth control.
Here’s my heart on this issue. If God wants to give us a kid before I think we’re ready (spiritually, financially, practically, etc), then He’s darn sure gonna “override” whatever birth control we’re using, be it natural or pharmaceutical.
And, while God is the Provider, I’m also not going to go buy a new car when we’re not financially prepared for it, even though that would also be a blessing.
May 15th, 2008 at 8:44 am (#)
There are many things that God wants for us (salvation), that He doesn’t force upon us. He often waits for us to come willingly.
Many people have abortions despite the fact that God is not on board with them. I often wonder why God doesn’t “override” these situations and let children live. Again, it seems He doesn’t always force His hand with us.
And believe me, I do understand where you are coming from. I was in your shoes, only the wife version, a few years ago. But I promise you, I have experienced few things that have brought greater freedom than relinquishing this issue.
As for the car, would you allow God to drop a new car at your doorstep EVEN THOUGH you weren’t financially prepared for it? Or would you turn it down? I don’t imagine many people would say, “Gee God. I’m just not financially prepared for that new car. Thanks for the offer. But until I can afford to get it for myself, I can’t accept it from You.”
May 15th, 2008 at 8:49 am (#)
And I would venture to say that, if you are living in America, you can afford a child. You may not be able to give your kid all the toys in the world, or the best clothes, or the biggest bedroom but, you can give your child love. That is true even of the poorest people in the most remote places on the earth. We really are one of the only cultures that even has a “when I’m ready” attitude about children…. and about almost everything else as well.
May 15th, 2008 at 8:51 am (#)
Rich,
Jeremiah 29:11 blew my mind, too. No one ever reads the rest of that chapter. That passage rocks. Talk about a God who cares for His people.
About Psalm 127, I know Solomon isn’t giving military instruction. But, he is giving an example of what KIND of blessing children are.
Jennifer,
If God dropped a FREE car on our doorstep, then heck yes I’d take it. But, children aren’t free and we have financial responsibilities already in place.
It looks like we’re just going to happily disagree. Can we still be friends even though I don’t know who you are?
May 15th, 2008 at 8:55 am (#)
Being open to having a lot of children is a huge responsibility. But being a husband, and a spiritual leader are no greater or less of a responsibility. As far as Im concerned and what the bible teaches, faith is faith. There is one distinction. Everything is blind faith for me because I will NEVER know the out come of every situation in life but I do know that All things work to the good for those who love the Lord Rom8:28 so there is nothing the devil is going to do that isn’t going to work for the good of the Lord. Even having a lot of kids. When you have faith in the word of God, you always know He is leading. That is what is so amazing about being quiverfull minded and the freedom found within. Wisdom tells me to trust in God and not me. What I would do, is not be open to having as many kids as the Lord would want. Instead it would be to worry about college, braces, weddings, supplying food and shelter for the 2 babies I already have.
God does desire and demand radical faith in all areas of our life. Not just the easy parts or areas of my choosing. Like I said, in my wisdom and in my faith I would never give money to people in need. Common sense tells me I am poor and I need to invest it and pay off my debts. God tells me to give it.
Bottom line is, christians don’t want to be convicted on this subject because it is a great sacrifice. That is why it is so easy to find 101 reasons not to be obedient. Because who wants to give up their life of money, vacations, nice home, nice things, nice cars…and likely/possibly be poor raising a lot of kids.
Last time I checked, the only thing we could take to heaven with us is other souls….my children especially. There is no higher or noble calling as a wife and mother than to nurture and train the children he has trusted us in the admonition of the Lord. 2 or 20…bring it!
Love you Scott =) Thanks for the discussion.
May 15th, 2008 at 9:02 am (#)
If God overrides your current methods, I imagine you will accept that child as well, despite the fact that he or she will not be free, and that you have financial obligations already in place.
Anyway, I will leave it at this… In my choice of “inaction,” I will certainly not have any more children than God intended for me to have. I have found great freedom in that.
Fun discussion!
And yes, we can still be friends.
May 15th, 2008 at 9:03 am (#)
Scotty..You will take a free car because that is a blessing, but you will not take a child (which is also a blessing)? Why should you be able to pick and choose your blessings.
Even bringing finances into this equation shows lack of faith for someone that the Lord will not provide. If he takes care of the lillies of the field…why not a precious child he has entrusted into YOUR care to bring up in the nurture and admonition of Himself. He will provide. Just not how you would choose and not in your liking. It wont be nice or brand new like you could possibly do on your own. Instead, it would be just enough. If people only realized how little people need to be happy. Espeically children. And as believers..it should be only the Lord we need to sustain us. All the other financial responsibilities will be taken care of. Even if it means sacrificing things.
May 15th, 2008 at 9:16 am (#)
Jennifer,
Glad we’re still friends.
Morgan,
You’re my friend too. I just think about the children out there that were birthed out of faith, who then live non-ideal lives because their parents can’t afford them. Plus, I don’t believe it’s the government’s job to pay bills for my kids, which is what we’d have to rely on if we had kids now. That’s a strong conviction for me.
May 15th, 2008 at 9:56 am (#)
Eddy and I share your convictions scott. We have family members and friends who abuse the system and therefore we do not rely on the government ourselves.
Also, it is very vague to say what the ideal life for a child is. Clearly you and I may have different perceptions in that area, who knows.
This is a truth I can state boldly though. If you had kids now, you would NOT have to rely on the government. Not only because I know you have money, but also because I know the state would deny you (even tho I dont know you and Ri’s income, I know where you live and most importantly how you live). You wouldn’t even have to sell anything either (your condo etc) because you also have families who have money. Not to mention the fact that the Lord could provide funds another way (ie a fulltime job etc). I say that in NO condemnation to you and Ri’s lifestyle. If I didnt have kids and could afford to live where you did and have what you have..I would too. The Lord has chosen to bless you with all that.
Anyway, in scripture the Lord always blesses the families with Children and then the provisions to take care of those children. Not the other way around. The Lord blessed us with 2 kids and then the bigger house, not the bigger house and then the kids.
Although with you and Erica it may be the other way around due to where you come from in the economical chain of life =) Love you guys have a good day!
May 15th, 2008 at 4:20 pm (#)
Hey I just wanted to tell you in case you didnt know that I dont feel it is necessary to throw this out at just anybody. I would never expect someone to live up to the convictions/standards the Lord has placed in my life. I love you and Erica and I know you guys passionately pursue the Lord. To me, that is ultimately what matters and why I love you guys.
Thanks for the good conversation though.
May 15th, 2008 at 4:24 pm (#)
Morgan,
Thanks for posting this last comment. Very cool. Erica and I love you guys too.
[Big hugs all around.]